Discussion Boards - The Big Issues

Thanks for the reminder, Dave. :-) That's good advice, will keep that in mind.
The fruit of the spirit is love,joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness and self control.

:-) Blessings

I always love to hear the Word recited often Dave as others here would too I'm sure. But we're not talking about judging or judgement.
We can see the House Rules, we are adults. :)
Those angels you speak of specially seek those who say one thing and do the other, ok! :)

Well said Hannah!! We are all Christians here (or at least I think so) and we all need to unite and look only to the Word of God and seek His face!

Hello Israel...
Let me get back to you following your Hebrew jargon once I deceipher it. Manmade theology, it's God's Word, who's to say your bible isn't manmade. Sounds like you are blasphemising Christianity there. By the way i'm a bible college student (just started this semester) and ironically am studying the rapture etc. at present. Have only been saved 4 years so have a lot to learn. You sound very legalistic and religious, are you Jewish or Christian? I hope you don't mind me asking and sorry if I offend you I don't mean too!

What is it with the whole Rapture thing, it's false etc. etc. Pauline what were the 3 scriptures that dispelled the rapture for you, I'm really intrigued?

Israel, your last post sounded a bit rude and sarcastic I'm afraid.. :-( Not benifical that's disapointing.

Hi Carrie, I'm on my ph at the moment. So when i get back to a computer i'll post for you :-)

I’m happy to share the scriptures I was shown through my study. It was mainly 3 passages of scripture, which I have following. I don’t know if this will be picked apart and/or ridiculed, but I will share :-)

Only going to type what stood out to me … These were the scriptures in order.

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Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ …
1Th 4:16 For the LORD HIMSELF shall descend from heaven

Exo 19
:16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud (Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds) upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud (1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven WITH A SHOUT,); so that all the people that was in the camp trembled (Rev 1:7 … and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him).
:17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God (Rev 1:7 and every eye shall see him); and they stood at the nether part of the mount.
:18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended (1Th 4:16 For the LORD HIMSELF shall descend) upon it in fire (Rev 1:14 ... and his eyes were as a flame of fire): and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke (Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God) of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.
:19 And when the voice of the trumpet (1Th 4:16 … with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God) sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.
:20 And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount …

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It may not make sense to you? But out of that, knowing that it was the revelation of Jesus Christ, who being the express image of and being one with the Father, I knew that the day we are living in, He (as in the God-Head, the 3, God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit) is coming to establish His kingdom here. When God the Father comes, the entire Kingdom of Heaven is coming with Him and He will establish His Kingdom here on earth (Matt 6:10)

This just then led me on to other truths :-)

Blessings to all

Hi Pauline, you ask what my first introduction to the rapture was? I can't name a definite day. In my case it is not as you suggest. As a child I used to lie in bed at night and listen to the gospels read onto tape. That is where I learnt to know and love Jesus. I heard him say to his disciples just before his crucifixion:

“Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In My father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.” John 14:1-3

So I knew that Jesus would return for me one day and take me to the place he had prepared in His father’s house. I also heard Jesus say of his return in Matthew 24:36-42:

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, not the Son, but the Father alone. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Therefore, be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.”

So I knew that no one would know when this day was to be – it could be at any time and I must be ready for my Lord at any time.

As I grew I also learned things from other places in scripture. Certainly, I was in contact with other Christians and I heard many different teachings on the return of Christ. My parents have been very wise in their faith and they always taught me to check everything I heard by scripture (as the Berean’s did in Acts 17:11) so this is what I did. I have been learning to “search the scriptures daily to see whether these things are so”. In my case anyway, you can’t write my belief in the Rapture off as being merely the teachings of man. It is the product of my searching of scripture.

Also, you mentioned the verse I quoted above about Noah. (you said -This goes against Mat 24:37 “But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” Noah was NOT taken from the earth and neither shall we be.) I beg you to read the entire verse in its context. Jesus is not saying that his coming will be exactly the same as the days of Noah were, he is making a comparison about one aspect. (Otherwise, you would have to say that because Noah took animals onto a boat, then so shall we etc... )

Rather, Jesus goes on to explain just how it will be like the days of Noah – that people were going about their daily lives as if nothing was going to happen to them when Noah entered the safety of the ark and all of a sudden the judgment of the flood came upon them. So it will be in the end times – people will be going about their daily business when the believers will be taken into the safety of heaven and all of a sudden, the judgment of the tribulation will come upon them. This is the comparison Jesus is making.

Also the parable of the virgins refers to the coming of Christ and that we need to be wise and ready at all times.

Thanks Hannah, that was very clearly explained and informative. I appreciated this post because I couldn't remember the relevant scriptures. I was giving this topic some pretty heavy pondering, and re-examinining all I had been taught, and comparing what I'd been taught to the word, searching for answers myself, thanks.

Blessings

The truth is just so simple and plain ...

Mat 16:
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mat 25
:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

The Son, the Father, the Holy Spirit, His angels and the kingdom of heaven is coming. He is coming to establish His throne, rule and reign here on earth.

Hi Pauline, Cossie, Camilla, Dave and of course Israel :)) - Hannah an Carrie (hello) havent seen you on the boards before :) I have always been someone who is completely passionate and kept an eager watch for the return of our soon and coming King! What a glorious an awesome, yet fearful Day, that will be!!! But I am not so sure that everyone in the body of Christ feels that same way, or longs for His return............an sometimes I think well Why, would Jesus return for a Bride who doesnt care whether He shows up or not.? It is time though - to keep your fire burning in your lamp, with plenty of spare oil. One thing is for sure; He will come; ready or not!

Camilla, thanks, I am glad to be of help to you, and I encourage you to keep on searching God's word and thinking critically about all ideas you hear, even when they come from someone you really respect as a teacher or a wise christian.

Have you ever consedered what principles of interpretation you use? This is really the starting point in examining God's word and it really helps to know what you believe are good, sound principles of interpretation, and then to stick to them, no matter what. A lot of false teaching arises (and I am not making inference to anyone on this site, but just a general observation of the teaching I have heard in various places) because people come across something in God's word which they can't accept as the truth - they don't like it or it doesn't fit with their picture of who God is etc. and so they seek for an alternate explanation. We all are human and our hearts are 'more deceitful than all else' Jeremiah 17:9 and so we must constantly examine our ideas and be willing to adjust them to the truth that God has revealed, and not the other way around.

The issue of biblical interpretation came up a few years ago for me, and so I sat down and did some serious thinking and studying to work out what I believe are good solid principles. Having don this has really helped me to sort out all the multitude of different ideas that are out there. It has helped me to be clear in my own thinking and in examining my own beliefs and the teaching of others. Now when I look at a certain idea or teaching, I am always asking myself 'is this person using principles of interpetation which are good and sound? and are they being consistent and sticking to them no matter what?' A lot of the time the answer is 'no', in which case, I can discard their ideas and not let them confuse me or lead me astray.

I would encourage every christian to think about this. Having a good understanding of God's word is vital to our spiritual health, and it all begins with interpretation. : )

Yes Pauline, I too believe that Christ will reign here on earth. Revelation speaks quite clearly of this, as do many other prophecies in the Old Testament. Revelation 20 tells us of the time just after the big finale of the Tribulation when Christ has conquered his enemies and the beast and the false prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire, and Satan is bound in the Abyss. It is then that Christ will reign on earth for one thousand years (see especially verse 4).

I don’t agree with you about the presence of the Father though. These verses do not say that God the Father will come to earth. They say that the Son will come ‘in the glory’ of His Father. The Son bears the glory of the Father, but He himself is not the Father. The only time when man will actually dwell with God the Father is after this world has passed away:

“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away...” Rev 21:1

“Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them...” Rev 21:3

“I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.” Rev 21:22

“There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.” Rev 21:3,4

(Please, everyone, read the verses in between yourselves for context – I haven’t room to type the whole chapter here!)

Hey Heather!! Great to see you back on the boards :-)

Hannah: "A lot of false teaching arises (and I am not making inference to anyone on this site ..." lol, I don't think anyone thinks that :-) You are right though, we all need to check the Word for ourselves. To add to your comment for Camilla please find following a list of Principles of Interpretation. I've listed 22 for reference.

Law of Total Significance
Law of First mention
Law of Last Mention
Law of Much Mention
Law of Total Reference
Law of Two or Three Witnesses
Law of Actual Language
Law of Order of Reference
Fragmentary Principle
Law of Association
Law of Symbolism
Law of Numerics
Law of Consistency
Parabolic Principle
Principle of Non-transference
Harmonic Principle
Principle of Spirit or Letter
Principle of Progressive Revelation
Christo-Centric Principle
Every Type must have an Anti-type
Principle of Disparity
Scripture must Interpret Scripture

If you would like further info of any of the above Principles I'm happy to expand :-)

Blessings to All